For today, you read three different accounts of Hercules and Cacus. In Humanities class later today, we'll discuss the greater significance of this story to the history of Rome. For now, I would like you to examine it from a strictly literary angle. Please write a response to the following two questions/prompts on your group blog.
1) What are the differences between the three accounts (Livy, Vergil, and Ovid)? Be very specific - every minor detail could be important. To be clear, I just want you to list unique details here.
2) Discussing each of the three accounts separately, what is the impact of the details told that are unique to that story? In other words, consider which details only Livy uses and the effect that those have on your understanding of Hercules and Cacus (and then repeat the same process for Vergil and Ovid). Also, consider the flip side - are there details omitted from that story that are used in the other two accounts? How is the larger message influenced by the inclusion or omission of those details?
Remember - there are no accidents. The authors chose which events to include and which to cut. Your job as an analyst is to consider the reasons behind and the impact of their decisions.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMakhayla Rose
ReplyDeleteFebruary 4, 2010
Humanities 9R
Mr. Whitson
1. The main differences between Ovid and Livy is that in the Ovid the story is taking place in present day, Tyrinthian is the one who discovered that Hercules' cattle were missing, and cacus doesn't ask his comrades for help. On the other hand, In the Livy, starts out with the death of Remus, the story is a flash back, Hercules is the one who released that his cattle was missing, and right before cacus dies, he cries for help from his comrades.
2.Livy's point of view makes me think that what Hercules did was phenomenal and it was worth worshiping because romulus built a temple devoted to worshiping Hercules.
On the other hand if I only read the Ovid I would think of hercules as a bully because it basically states the he killed cacus for steeling 2 cattle.
Alessio Sarraf
ReplyDelete1. A difference could be that Livy is the only one that that talks about Romulus and Remus, a quote that was in Livy’s story that was by Romulus is, “So shall it be henceforth with every one who leaps over my walls,” and it is mentioned that Remus sees six vultures and how Romulus sees twelve vultures. Which is not mentioned in the story of Vergil and Ovid. In Ovid’s story, he doesn’t talk about how Hercules kills Geryon. Also in Livy’s story talks about how Hercules swam across the Tiber which is not mentioned in the other stories. In Vergil’s story, King Evander is mentioned but not in Livy’s story and Ovid’s story. Both Ovid and Livy’s thoughts on Caucus are very different. Livy thinks Caucus is good, but Ovid thinks that Caucus is bad.
2. So in the fight between Hercules and Caucus, King Evander is mentioned only in Vergil’s side of the story but not in Livy’s or Ovid’s side of the story.
Emilie F. Ahlgreen
ReplyDeleteHumanities 9R
Hercules & Cacus
2.4.010
What are the differences between the three accounts (Livy, Vergil, and Ovid)? Be very specific - every minor detail could be important. To be clear, I just want you to list unique details here.
1.) Livy:
Tells about R&R’s story (Vultures & the forming of Rome)
Says that Cacus is a shepherd (Not a monster)
OXEN
Taken from FIELD
Hercules kills Cacus with a club
Romulus sets up a temple for traditional latin gods & Hercules on the hill of Cacus’ murder (Centuries Before?)
Hercules was afraid of whatever stole his oxen and tried quickly to depart
After fighting a monster (Geryon) he falls asleep in a grassy place near the TIber River
Cacus begged for his life-->Calls out to other shepherds/comrades*
2.) Vergil:
Cacus is a described as a murderous monster in this one
Belches fire
BULLS & HEIFERS not Oxen
Cacus took the bulls and the Heifters from their STALLS
Cacus covers the cave with a rock
Hercules used a tree, breaking the banks, resulting in a flood leading into the cave and the pushing away of the rock.
Hercules grabbed his weapons, shot missiles at Cacus (brought in sunlight), however killed him brutally through his “venomous dark rage” (Packet)
Cacus belched fire & smoke, leading to total submergence/darkness of the cave
The people saw Cacus’ carcass at the end of it
Celebrations were held, dancing priests yadda yadda
People honored Hercules & listed his feats
3.) Ovid:
Erythean cattle
Traveled through the world
Tyrinthian Saw
“Cacus: Infamous terror of the Aventine woods” (Packet)
Cacus blocked the entrance with a piece of the hill
Hercules carried the world on his shoulders
Hercules breaks through the cliff
Cacus did not take the cattle this time around, they just wandered
Cacus is a shepherd
Cacus fought hand to hand, throwing boulders and trees
Hercules kills Cacus with his triple-knotted club
FAIL therefore used his “father’s trick” and started to vomit fire.
Bull is offered to Jupiter & Evander and countrymen to the feast
Altar: Maxima, the mightiest
Evander’s Mum: Goddess: January is named after her
Discussing each of the three accounts separately, what is the impact of the details told that are unique to that story? In other words, consider which details only Livy uses and the effect that those have on your understanding of Hercules and Cacus (and then repeat the same process for Vergil and Ovid). Also, consider the flip side - are there details omitted from that story that are used in the other two accounts? How is the larger message influenced by the inclusion or omission of those details?
The impact of the story is the same as the "fight scenario example" we used today in class.
hahahahahahahaha MY BLOG NAME. Not school one. Since I can't sign in on the Tessy one. FYI.
<3Emilie
1) Livy's mentions the 6 vultures as the first omen, but Vergil just goes straight into the Cacus, while Ovid's version also goes straight into the Cacus. Another difference is that Livy's story has Romulus and Remus in it, but the others do not. Also Vergil goes way into detail about the Cacus. For example he says "There was a cave here receding to cast depths untouched by the sunlight. Inhabited by the half-human Cacus. The ground was warm with fresh blood." When the others just said it was a deep dark cave. Another thing was that Virgil and Ovid had the Cacus killed by the club, but Vergil had the Cacus choked to death.
ReplyDelete2) When Livy’s mentions the 6 vultures it changes my perspective of the story because Remus and Romulus are connected to Hercules and the Cacus. In the other 2 it does not. The Hercules and Cacus story gives us a better understanding about the Romulus and Remus.
Hercules and Casus
ReplyDelete#2 (all of it) Livy’s post was extremely blank in details and the first half the story was about Romulus and Remus. the Hercules story had very few detail and merely skims the top of the story. Because Hercules got drunk he slept but before that he traveled over rolling pastures and swam across the tiber river. And the only reason that Casus stole the sheep was because they were beautiful. It states little of his strength. Casus made the sheep walk backwards and therefore confuse hercules once he woke up. Hercules woke up and found some of them are gone so he went looking for them. he was the footsteps backwards so he drove the rest of the herd away from the cave the sheep were “dragged” in. the cattle mooed from the cave and hercules heard it. cacus tried to prevent him by force and was killed. this story is not effective in explaining a detailed story of hercules and is very different in details from the other two writers.
Vergil, however, went into much greater detail. the first half a page is talking about honors due and repeat them again with a trojan friend, which sounds like hercules, but whatever. lol. then it talks about an overhanging cliff that never sees the light. It makes Casus look like “The half human, and the ground was always warn with fresh blood, and the heads of men,insolently nailed to the doors, hung there pallid with sad decay”. This makes Casus look like a beast that can also “belch out his dark flames”. This makes Casus look more like a monster than a men, and therefore changes my views on if what hercules did was correct or not. After the vulgar description of Casus Hercules comes in, being portrayed as the “assistance of a god”, and “the greatest of avengers”.
(dave made me stop)
Robert Backer
ReplyDeleteHumanities 9G
Mr. Dave
2/4/10
Hercules and Cacus
Livy refers to Romulus and Remus.
Livy said that Cacus is a shepherd instead of a monster.
In Vergil, Hercules grabbed Cacus and squeezed him to death.
In Ovid Hercules breaks through the cliff.
In Ovid, a bull is offered to Jupiter.
In Virgil, Hercules chokes Cacus to death.
In Livy, the cave leading to Cacus was open, In Vergil, Hercules couldn’t break through the wall/mountain and in Ovid, he broke through the wall/mountain.
(question #2)
(Livy) One thing that was unique in Livy’s account was that she portrayed Cacus as a sheepherder and not a monster. She made it sound like Hercules was a killer. She also didn’t have and form of celebration after Hercules killed Cacus where as Vergil and Ovid do. ... (I believe that she could of given us more details on who Cacus was to have a greater impact on the reader)
(Vergil) Vergil had great detail and portrayed Cacus as a “half human monster who always had fresh blood on the ground and human skulls nailed to the doors.” His fathers name is Vulcan (where as in Ovid’s account his fathers name is Mulciber). He also said that Hercules was unable to break through the stone door after trying 3 times which shows that Hercules might not have infinite strength but, he was still able to break through and kill Cacus which shows that he doesn’t give up. - The larger message in Vergils account is that Hurcules is a hero for killing many evil beasts such as Cacus not only by using brute strength but by being persistent when the odds are up against him.
(Ovid) In Ovid’s account, Cacus was portrayed as a monster as well. However, (in Ovid’s account) Hercules was able to break through the stone door. Also, in this account Hercules offered one of his bulls to Jupiter as the winner of the fight (unlike Vergil’s or Ovid’s account).
(end)
1.) Some of the differences were in Livy - Remus dies, Romulus creates a temple in Remus honor, tells of Remus and Romulus's background. In vergil- it talks of how a bull offers to jupiter, breaks off cliff, The are in a cave , Hercules shows courage. In Ovid - Romulus asked for help, Moves bolder, gets in cave, kills cacus cause he took the bull.
ReplyDelete2.)In the story Livy it shows how Romulus is a king and how cacus is shown as a shepherd. But then in Vergil it tells of cacus is taking the cow and hides from Romulus. And finaly in Ovid it tells of how Romulus gets into the cave that cacus was in and takes back his cow and gets revenge.